21 April 2005

How to Include Web Standards in an RFP

People often wonder how to include web standards in an internal Request for Proposal. Information architect Tanya Rabourn recently did it this way:


In order to anticipate future browser compatibility we require conformance to the following W3C standards:

HTML
Validate to either the W3C's XHTML 1.0 transitional or strict doctype
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/

CSS
Validate to the W3C's CSS 2.1 or 1.0
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS1

Javascript
Javascript will never use browser detect but instead object detection to test for browser support of properties, arrays and methods


If you work as an in-house designer, developer, or content professional, how do you specify web standards requirements in your project documents?

167 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not in a position to ask for things like that, but under Javascript, I'd add "complies with ECMA-262", which happens to be the standardised Javascript syntax.

4:35 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the succinct outline Jeffrey!

As an architect managing the company website, I've been wondering how to clearly specify compliance with web standards in the RFP I am just about to write.

My next problem is how to find a shortlist of local firms qualified to deliver such a website on a tight-ish budget. I'm located in Sydney, Australia.

Suggestions?

9:25 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the statement that JavaScript should only use object detection is a bit short sighted. I wrote some more about this on my site.

8:06 AM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So how would specify your standard for javascript in an RFP then, Mark?

12:17 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So how would specify your standard for javascript in an RFP then, Mark?

12:18 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hmm... at my place, try to explain what standards are to a designer is met usually with "I don't care". The policy tends to be if the client asks for it, they get it, otherwise it doesn't matter.

4:09 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To get 'pure' designers (the sort who run shrieking at the sight of an anchor tag) interested in standards, one has to show them they can accomplish things with them that are unpossible without. The CSS Zen Garden is a good way to do this.

Another is to show them something that doesn't maybe work out on the page -- e.g. a font that renders well in Photoshop but not in the browser (Trebuchet is often good for this) or a color that doesn't show up well on a typical PC monitor (very light greys are good, as they often wash out on crap old screens). Sit them down and change the font, color, etc. while they direct. I won over the entire design department with one of those sessions + the Zen Garden.

The key is not to get into the technical whatsits, but to emphasize the control and flexibility. Designers are also generally visual creatures, so showing, rather than telling, is key.

2:54 AM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shane,
It wasn't clear to me wether your colleagues thought firefox was a bad browser, or yourself....if its your colleagues, get to skippin' and look for a new job, if its you i would not listen to your advice on how to include web standards in an RFP.

Things we want:
XHTML 1.0 Transitional that validates with current W3C Standards
and presents content not layout
CSS
Must comply and validate CSS with W3C Specs (CSS 1.0)
"Hacks" must be used with an @import rule in the main stylesheet for these browsers to minimize interference with universal rules, and ease removal:
IE 5 Win
IE 5 Mac
Things to avoid: Flashing gifs that induce Epilepsy, and more slicing and dicing than our mamma's kitchen.

3:49 AM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way setmajer, its not often that I get to complain to the maker of such a sinful thing.

Your site disables the back button on a browser....SHHEEESHH thats so 90's.

4:08 AM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it's more important to seperate the different layers of a site. I.E. Presentation of content fron logic.

CSS validating doesn't do much for a 40px gap or overlapping sidebars in Firefox while it works in IE now does it?

7:27 AM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just went straight to people for who it's natural to use web standards ;-).

10:18 AM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tanya, "unobtrusive" JavaScript, which degrades gracefully and is forward compatible.

1:39 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Jeffrey, I wanted to ask you a thing ... I began using XHTML Strict and CSS reading htmldog.com. Do you know where can I begin learning JavaScript on a Website like that?
Thanks and congratulations for your adventure book ;)

8:16 PM EDT  
Blogger Dante said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12:11 AM EDT  
Blogger Dante said...

See QuirksMode for excellent tutorials on all things (responsible) JavaScript.

12:12 AM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Our team sticks to valid XHTML 1.0 Strict and CSS validation is required. No explicit restrictions are imposed on the use of javascript in the RFP but developers are supposed to be sensible about it.

Shouldn't the MIME type be mentioned on how XHTML has to be served (text/html or application/xhtml+xml) ?

It would also be interesting to see how Accessibility is included in an RFP. US has Section 508 and UK has the DDA, in addition to WAI by W3C. We go for Section 508, but is it the best option?

1:09 AM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Our team sticks to valid XHTML 1.0 Strict and CSS validation is required. No explicit restrictions are imposed on the use of javascript in the RFP but developers are supposed to be sensible about it.

Shouldn't the MIME type be mentioned on how XHTML has to be served (text/html or application/xhtml+xml) ?

It would also be interesting to see how Accessibility is included in an RFP. US has Section 508 and UK has the DDA, in addition to WAI by W3C. We go for Section 508, but is it the best option?

1:11 AM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We always include in our business reqs, "Site will conform to W3C standards, XHTML Strict. Accessibility must beat least AA or better."

10:55 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I include the following in my proposals, under the heading 'Technical':

----------------------------------
The XHTML/CSS templates will be developed in accordance with the following standards:

Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Priority 1, 2 & 3 (AAA)

XHTML and CSS to be W3C compliant and validated, XHTML 1.0 Strict Doctype

CSS compatible with version 5+ browsers

Backwards text-only compatibility for version 4 and lower browsers
----------------------------------

9:05 AM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am definitly a standards advocate, but I don't think its necessary to go to the levels of actually putting your standards compliance, etc.. in an RFP.

Sites should just be built properly, it shouldn't have to be in text about how the site is going to be built. 90% of clients won't even know what that stuff means.

Now, talking about accessibility is another issue. That I think should be in an RFP, because clients are not stupid enough to know that NOT giving their information to a % of the population is bad press for them (in the long run). Its easy to sell accessibility, but if you try to sell standards, 9 times out of 10 its going over their head.

Sure, you can use hot words like, "Better SEO", "All Browsers", "Accessibility", but anything more is likely to go in one ear and out the other.

Saying something like, "We build websites that are not only backwards compatiable, but forward compatiable as well. Your site currently has the ability (or will have the ability) to be viewed on more then a web browser, but a web enabled cell phone, PDA, screen reader, etc...

Anyways, I don't think its necessarily to outline all the standards mumbo jumbo as the clients eyes will glaze over either way.

10:30 PM EDT  
Blogger fvm said...

I don't work in a design company myself, but I do dabble with websites here and there. I always hold myself to the following standards:

- xhtml 1.0 strict as defined bij w3c
- CSS 2 compliant
- NO javascript

If having no javascript or the restrictions imposed by the flow of a xhtml document entail having to make concessions in the design of a website, I just do so.

5:45 AM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I refrain from asking web standards as part of the deliverable. Instead I request low bandwidth, low overhead, and clean code. If webstandards work, so be it. If tables work, so be it. If only accepting IE, so be it.

The business I work with don't care if 5% of their users have a bad experience. They care about the users that get them the most sales.

However... as a web developer it should be upon us to be the experts and provide this solution. The business should worry about their business goals.

10:14 AM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmmm ... what will be the impact on the web-standards community's efforts when a table-based site (National Cancer Institute - http://www.cancer.org/ ) starts touting the fact that they won a Webby this year?

4:16 PM EDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

trevorspheric says:

"those clients who profess not to 'care about the technical stuff, i just care how it looks' are passed on to our 'competitors' who can churn out Dreamweaver, GoLive and Frontpage garbage in an afternoon."

I suppose your "shop" churns out hand-written code only? how pure. Do you prefer granite tablets or obsidian?

It's always so annoying when someone thinks the way they do things is some sort of holy grail, and then thinks they are going to shame others who read their lofty pronouncements. Frontpage and Golive are pretty horrendous, but what did Dreamweaver ever to do assail your obviously frail ego? If you know what you are doing you can compensate for the deficiencies of any layout tool - to eschew tools altogether is childish at best.

Or do you charge your clients a "premium" for your otherworldly knowledge and the extra hours it takes you to hand-code everything? Nice work if you can get clients who really want to pay extra for your sanctimonious attitude and bend over before you can even say TextPad.

1:03 AM EDT  
Blogger Don Crowley said...

Has anyone read Ian Hicksons post about send xhtml/text considered harmful. I use xhtml all the time but I am reconsidering a move back to html 4.01 which is a W3 standard as well (less you mock). Unobtrusive javascript, validating code and most important that the site looks ok without a stylesheet.

I agree most though with setmajer (2:54 AM EDT). Show peole the benifits with examples. Details bore most people.

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